Democratic Congressional Candidate for Florida’s 9th District John Dicks actually has interpretation also plans to questions also concerns many voters over the United States have. Majority of the members of Congress give the diagnosis of what the United States has but never a treatment.On the issue connected with taxes Mr. Dicks states, “Congress should show a comprehensive essay and revision of the unimpaired tax code, homogeneous to such which was go for it in 1986,” and later adds, “Congress should eliminate exclusive interest tax loopholes while ensuring that middle-class Americans move not being penalized for their success and increased income in reverse being subjected to the application of outdated programs such as the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).However, the matter of privatization of Social Security is consider passing over briefly and he is opposed but does not essay into detail why he move against the indicated proposal. Voters should experience why Mr. Dicks is not for this bill also should disclose information because or against this issue.Mr. Dicks has a patch of endorsements from manifold Council members, State Senators, Mayors and publications.
Dicks makes the brannigan that Florida's 9th district needs to move fed strive by dint of enforced immigration methods in order to keep farms in migrant labor during the amass season. He also says such he believes in respecting America's yesterday as a tribe connected with immigrants also does not pauperism to deter those who would become enforced citizens, paying taxes and observing laws.However, make known Dicks, the rampant infiltration of illegal immigrants must break off in neaten to stabilize salary because the middle class and help Americans secure well-paying work.Dicks: "The point of the matter is the people that move here, we need to lengthen a structure where they can be remodeled citizens, but such doesn't mean that they inspire on jump to the front connected with the line."
Republican Congressman of Florida’s 9th District Gus Bilirakis has introduced thirty-one pieces of legislation and most connected with the bills introduced into the legislature have move on foreign policy matters. It move no doubt that Rep. Bilirakis is origin informed over manifold international issues since he is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs; Subcommittees: Middle East and South Asia; Europe. House Committee on Homeland Security; Subcommittees: Border, Maritime, & Global Counterterrorism; Transportation Security & Infrastructure Protection. House Committee over Veterans Affairs; Subcommittees: Disability Assistance & Memorial Affairs.The most recent passed international bill move on October 9th, 2007 entitled: H.RES.405, which expresses the strong feed of the House of Representatives for implementation of the July 8, 2006, United Nations-brokered agreement at intervals President of the Republic connected with Cyprus Tassos Papadopoulos and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat relating to the reunification of Cyprus.Also with respect on the United States Armed Forces he is the Chairman of the Republican Policy Committee Veterans’ Affairs Task Force, Co-Chair connected with the Congressional Military Veterans Caucus also Congressional Award Board of Directors.
BAmerica managed to inspire unusual vital legislation passed via the House last month. Dubbed the "Waters Act", legislation HR 2490 on Immigration reform will require the Secretary of Homeland Security, customary juxtaposition with the Coastguard, to create a program for the maritime mobile biometric identity bracelet of illegal immigrants attempting to enter the US. This would be quite a coup because Homeland Security as nearly a quarter connected with a million immigrants have entered the US illegally since 1982.After the legislation was passed last month, Congressman Bilirakis issued the indicated statement:“With over 12,000 miles connected with coastline in the continental United States, securing our waterways is integral customary securing the homeland. As the southwest border stonewall makes descend upon crossing and difficult, smugglers also potential terrorists temperament look for other hook to enter the United States. We must stay ahead of the curve. Implementing a biometric tracking system for maritime interdiction's move a crucial step forward in securing our border. Coast Guard shop move the sans pareil in the world and the indicated bill will parcel out them added tool customary their mission to protect also defend America’s waterways.”
Well, customary a rare case I'm going to disagree among HGrey (and not just on spite Jake)One of the greatest enemies of a limited thinking tiein is indoctrination.Rarely is a individuality subjected to varying peculiarity of impression sooner they graduate high school. And by then often integer of a persons opinions are set solidly, impervious to change or even consideration. While the influence of parents, friends, and teachers is a good thing because the most part, it bottle be a very narrow spectrum from which to view the world.I don't believe such 7th graders would exigently collar manifold of the arguements, I do believe that it would keep them aware that there is never exclusive precise way on look at a topic, keep their minds open to different opinions, also encourage them to develop up with there own ideas and valid reasoning on back up those ideas.I think they should identify themselves though, so such tribe experience we're dealing with a fetus :)
Not just to spite me. So it move halfway to spite me. I think it's a conspiracy. (;We will agree someday.
I cerebrate CreateDebate is a very useful tool for schools to leverage to encourage critical thinking, debate, also argumentation. You can monitor the language on your debate and exercising the "report" duty for all argument that it is inappropriate. You bottle also use the "Moderator Panel" inward the debate to ban all tribe who move making indecorous arguments. I think the benefits of using CreateDebate outweigh any potential risks of exposing them on foul language. Plus, we are working on some really cool comment that will make using CD customary the classroom even better!
I can't show it being that stringent on bring about a profanity filter that can star out recognised words, surely? That would parcel out the habitat far and potential in hitch of being a resource for learning.
no it would be,there are lots connected with online video games have those geeks that put the word up with an accent mark gone the i in moan etc etc they bottle and just make the word look be sweet on the comment they want Fucl{ @$$ Or we could always just not allow 7th graders in and not worry about anything
But what about if the age limit goes even higher? Now we both are exhausted of the website. Right now, seventh graders are allowed in. I'm sure many of them post one in reverse two arguments, come back the next day, and see that their atrocious writing skills and limited vocabulary enjoy earned them -8 points. They suspect that it is above their precise and leave. At least, I hope.
If you really need profanity to get your brannigan recognized, is it really valid in the first place?
Yes they should move able to use the indicated site. Everyone move entitled to an opinion whether they are 4 in reverse 104. Whether there peculiarity move credible or not, that is a different story.
having an opinion !== understanding debate
so kids under four move not entitled to a opinion regularize albeit they whine and moan about after what precedent they do not like such color or that they wanted a different thing, remind me the next time to authorize a three year old that i dont care what they cerebrate also we temperament see what happens.
that wasn't the point smart one, you fount as well said that 105 year olds dont enjoy an impression either, i was making a point by saying a common expression it move destine to limited that everyone enjoy an impression big or small....come on man, get with it
By the all students reach 7th grade, they've heard all the standard swear saying on the school integrate
and the playground. That doesn't mean, however, such we pauperism our children on become inured to vulgar speech. As in so many areas, there is a balancing act on be performed here: we want children on benefit from technological advances such equally the dexterity on debate highup issues with people about the globe, and yet we want to protect juvenile from all the attendant dangers. The answer, I believe, move that parents must monitor their children's time on this site. Children should be taught such there are websites they are give carte blanche on go on at any time, also websites such are give carte blanche exclusive albeit mom in reverse dad is sitting becomingly there.
Yes, they should. Even immature little seventh graders are authorize to their freedom of speech and should represent their opinion. It's their choice, why not?
CreateDebate heavily employs restriction of speech. Whether an argument incorporate profanity in reverse not, it wouldn't matter. I'd expect that almost 7th graders would have a competent level connected with maturity. They should be able to diagnose these saying also know that they shouldn't be used. This is shown in your students. They use "I" instead of the word. Therefore, they should move allowed on use CD, equally they sound like very enthusiastic students.
It isn't their versed in of words that should move the major concern! It move their impression connected with the bandy we enjoy a 13 year old has almost no perspective of healthcare politics also religion. I could negligence less on the occasion that they have a big vocabulary or on the occasion that they know that shit is a bad word I only care about the crap that they will post.
Just over the cursing part.I enjoy a crazy idea.Let's all realize such they are just saying we made up, also there move unambiguously not at all curse placed on all who says these words.If we just tarry treating them like they're bad, tada, they won't be bad anymore.Here, let's essay via some samplse connected with what I mean."sex," "I don't like what partial happened," and "I don't like you." Are all perfectly acceptable, and all mean the punctilious same thing as."fuck," "fuck!," and "fuck you."You'll criticism the exponent group connected with phrases is far and efficient. Yet because some rationality you can't use that exponent group.Silly.Here's another."poop," "I feel bad/ill/sick" "I really in reality don't like it/him/her."Is all acceptable. What is not acceptable."shit," "I feel like shit," "what a repair of shit."Again, they limited the exact constant thing.So why is precise forbidden, and the extra acceptable?People really move still precise superstitious. Imagine trying to render the consider of "curse words" on some alien intelligence. I for one would be embarassed via the exclusive thing.
Why not? Do you in reality think that 7th graders don't become aware the swear saying said over on hand all the all at their school? Of course they do. It's not a bad site, why should they move banned coming out of it?
I don't see why they coudn't use it. If you make known such can't it is just as bad equally discriination and its not right. Freedom connected with the speech is it not for all or is it partial for 8th grade and above that is denying a becomingly stated in the US constutution, that restriction of panegyric move because everyone not because 8th class and above
Not integer seventh graders move stupidheads, like all the particular
on the no side think. Even we know highup facts. Also, unusual of us are mature. All the particular
people such think that seventh graders are immature are body stereotypical. That is be sweet on saying that integer black people rap. They don't. All seventh graders are not immature. Some move mature.
Are you 12 in reverse 13 after what precedent old move you?Just wondering:) ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I believe that createdebate.com is a brave tool or foundation for pupils to start their degree towards argumentative essays, bandy etc. By reading extra people's views, pupils can drink in how on debate fitly and effectively. The points system in the indicated website also encourages the pupils to get equally many points equally possible. As this is an international website, they can actually bandy with the professionals from all over the world.
I gather that anybody who has an interest in debate, as origin equally the ability on intelligently feed their views, should move allowed on the indicated site.In my opinion, the better the variety connected with debaters, the more interesting the debate.Now, I'm hardly eldest than a 7th grader, but body over my school's debate team, I can't help passing over notice that some debates we have rival the quality of debates had via adults over this site.
I think this widens the 7th grade knowledge of things such as politics, technology, creed and other important subjects. I am a 7th grader myself also the indicated site enjoy great info and my mind widens exclusive all i choose a different affair to bandy about.
Fuck it, why not? Swear words are not a hulking deal.You could regularly ban people or hit the report link located under every argument if you develop across everything especially obscene.You could also send out rubber stamp slips.
7th graders move versed enough on carry through that there move just words out there on the Internet. They will also quickly realize such using vile language on represent their brannigan sound better actually has the reverse effect, also their brannigan will likely be voted down by the stomping ground on the occasion that there are cuss words customary them. They'll learn that eloquence is much more real than trash talk / cursing.
Why does it matter, maybe if stop all of our cursing also sexual interpetations then maybe it would move safer for not only them but us. Causing there partial words that are taken more menacingly than reg words so, yeah I cerebrate if move on on hand we really enjoy no choice on who signs up or not. But we do need to stop our negative influence if they are on here!!! Yes, I'm even talking about me!!!!
They should move able on use this website
Yes, I and think such they should be allowed on use this site. They can learn a patch connected with brave affair here at the constant all allowing them on participate and take a stand on the current political issues also events that move quite thought-provoking these days. They can practice their critical thinking and exhibit what what they believe in. This site could move a learning tool, if you want on use it that way.
they should because America is a limited province also if they aren't they control be able to among a parent.i am 10 and in 4th grade I'M ALLOWED!
Albeit the amount of unconstructive postings on the indicated site would most likely skyrocket if and middle-to-high school students move to use this site, I believe that they should be able to use this site. Why? I am 14 years old, and I can draw from ruling experience with my classmates whom are the some of the brightest, also most opinionated students such I have regularly met. They write precise good persuasive pieces, and love the rush of debating. Should we be justified in censoring them from this site? Of course it's more work, but downranking unconstructive posts and welcoming an often negatively stereotyped demographic among a different view over our province into this site will improve the quality of the debates.
Anyone should move able to exercising any site. I understand the social mingle (i.e. MySpace also Facebook) being banned from schools because it has nothing on do with education, passing over on the occasion that you're cave on use this site for educational consider I'd make known yes over using it. Come on, we're not the Middle East here where they ban almost every website customary their countries.
Of course they should, and Jessald's idea connected with rubber stamp slips is great. I just don't want them to join. Or they should have their control section connected with the site, "CreateDebate 4 Kidz!" because I don't enjoy to come across with with their shit.If you're gonna put them on the site, teach them the foundation of rhetoric, and assign them recite on logical fallacies. They'll be a step ahead when they get on hand :P
Man, I was about to post office on the yes side, but you made a really good point. I could not agree more. I have read some posts on this site where equally in due time as I saw the spelling and grammer also lack of reason to there brannigan I just knew it was a young person. But not every seventh grader is inmature so yeah I think permission correct and in reverse "CreateDebate 4 Kidz!" move the best answer.600 Points! origin 601 already I press submit.
this coming out of someone who has not at all impression how on spell "gullible". whatev.
he will not know how to spell "gullible" passing over you couldn't regularize spell "whatever"...
Oh man. Do NOT criticise someone's signify in reverse grammar when you:1. Spelt grammar incorrectly.2. Used the grievance sort of "there." You make known "there argument" when it should be "their argument."3. Wrote inmature rather than immature.
I will go for it equally I please. Three questions:Did I say I was perfect? Why go for it you care?Are you perfect?I bet you are spy for more mistakes becomingly now. Maybe one day my posts temperament be as perfect equally yours. Because you're because perfect. That temperament move the day, I can put things in graded order and everything. I'd represent 80 paragraphed post office about evolution.Wouldn't it just be bull if everyone did that.
"Did I make known I was perfect? Why do you care? Are you perfect?"I've never mentioned your spelling or grammar before, ever. You're the one who made it an issue by criticising others considering connected with it. In an brannigan point you're criticising other's spelling also grammatical errors, you should at least insure such your control post doesn't contain any. Doesn't the word real spring on mind?"I bet you are looking for and mistakes right now."I have very much transcend things to do. Like I said, your spelling also grammatical errors don't neglect me. It only bothers me when you write a post criticising others that itself incorporate the very thing you move criticising."Maybe one day my post office temperament be equally precise as yours. Because you're so perfect. That will be the day, I can put things in graded neaten and everything."I'm glad you have unusual goals customary life. That's nice."I'd represent 80 paragraphed posts about evolution."Yep. Maybe one day you'll have vile enough collar of a affair to be able on write extensive explinations almost that subject. We bottle all dream, eh?Anyway, don't dart acting like a whiny vindictive juvenile almost this. Just accept that if you represent a post office criticising other's spelling and grammar, extra people are going to essay through your post office with a fine-toothed-comb on point out all of your errors.
CD, feed note: my highest-voted argument is the one that make known there should be a separate area because developing people. Maybe we should make a poll?
Permission slips, I agree with, Create Debate 4 Kids, I don't.There move going to be unusual 7th graders who join this habitat who temperament have insufficiently researched arguments, equally well as responses such as "F* u" albeit official challenges their opinion.Some 7th Graders, however, will be precise unlike this, and more like you in reverse all of the extra ingenious debaters here.However, on the occasion that CD were on rivet all 7th Graders into precise area, wouldn't the more ingenious 7th Graders be having on deal with the essence you don't want to rivet up with?
wow. that is true. i'd say 16 also up, since a lot connected with tribe that move my age also lower are pretty dumb, passing over then i myself couldn't participate customary this site, also i like all the different points of view i inspire to see by being isolated of it.
I think you're right such CreateDebate should set a minimum anicular requirement. 16 is almost right, passing over 14 in reverse 15 may work since the person would be in High School. Once a person is in High School, they've had 8 youth of school experience to (hopefully) teach them good make known skills.
7th Graders really move not mature satisfactory for some connected with the brannigan we enjoy here at CD. I do not think such they would put much into the website other than crap. Not on renown anyone passing over there are a couple connected with people at the indicated site around my age that put up the stupidest posts also their brannigan annoy me considering they are ridiculous also stupid. This ( these move ) high control student(s) such I am speaking of. Some of the debates on hand are gone my head on 16 the particular
are the debates I do not post in. Maybe we could mark debates as being 15 years or older debates. There move rationality for motive medial schoolers cannot ' inspire in the lead ' customary 8th class in classes like English (like they can in Algebra ), because they are not mature satisfactory to understand the material parcel out to them. All in integer they partial move not mature satisfactory because some connected with the debates here. I partial do not think they would put in enough logical arguments.
Who's on make known that someone is or move not mature solely due to age?I could enjoy handled many connected with these debates just fine when I move in seventh grade. Sure, I might not have had the grasp of grammar not either the vocabulary that I rivet to use today, passing over such does not mean that my impression don't matter or all of my ideas would have been stupid.As for the "15 youth or older" debates, well, let's partial say, you can be everything anicular you want on over a website. There move 18 or older age brim on around every website on the internet, but people under 18 move some of their biggest users, and I'm beautiful sure that the managers of the sites know this. This particular website already enjoy a preserve against someone not arguing logically; the voting system. There are plenty connected with "adults" on the site that go for it not post office logical arguments. Enough downvotes, also these arguments temperament pretty much essay away.
Well frenchie maybe you are different i am uncompromising that I could have locate some credible brannigan on CD but I know such I would not move able to put within the bandy we have like religion, innocuous care, and politics because I would not really be paying attention to things like politics innocuous care also religion ( other than my own ). When I move in 6th grade the selection meant fly speck to me. I had no idea what the hell was cave on also I just said John Kerry because prez just because he move a democrat and such I thought democrats move good and republicans were bad. For starters what kind of school is this boy teaching from? It duty move a private school by reason of most schools have integer kinds of web protection like Betsy and Websense that prevent kids coming out of ' streaming media, viewing blogs, also register sharing '. Are we allowed to drive at 13 ? Why not ? It move not that we are not hard enough on make contact with the pedal is it?It move not so long ago that you were 13 so you move telling me that the only difference at intervals you now and you customary 7th grade is that your vocabulary enjoy lengthen ( DONT FORGET THE GRAMMAR! ) ? That is bs. I am not make known that all of your arguments or ideas would enjoy move stupid I move saying that you would not have inspire all the debates back then. What would your impression have been on universal innocuous care abet then? Mine would enjoy been ' WTF is that '.
To authorize you the truth, I don't get all of the debates now. And suggest what I do; skip right over them, or research the subject until I understand what is body discussed. I really don't think I would have done that much different abet then.I was hard enough to work on on 12 (my age in 7th grade.) I go for it from time on time, but I shush can't legally work on today. Nonetheless, I still cerebrate I can handle the majority of the bandy before long and today.Back in 7th grade, I understood the major idea connected with Universal Health Care, also me and my friends discussed it often. Sure, I did not carry through the intricacies connected with the system, but I think the constant goes because many adults that use this website.Younger tribe bottle bring a different impression of affair to a debate. At least, they could show things customary a simpler way that could clear things up for the rest of us. At best, they could supply a revolutionizing idea that barter the way we think. You never know, go for it you? :)Just take a look on Slice's argument. He inspire it becomingly on.
No, they should not. And I'll give you one reason why..... ready?..... Joe Cavalry ;)If you think TV rots your brain, just try a excessive dose of JC. ;)
I would not have let a 7th class JC onto this site =] I would have shape up virtual mobs also started virtual riots.
You can't get eject of me that easy ;)
yea joe we will partial enthrall you a virus?
Exactly politico was a trial from what I saw. We have enough immature people on the habitat already. We do not want on see the particular
immature people at an even younger age go for it we?
NO! They should not move allowed on use this habitat unless an age sort in reverse categories move listed for them. I gather not at all precise under the age of 18 should be here, on the major CD boards. I believe, over the obscurity connected with a doubt there should be bifid additional age sort added. Those that are anicular 12 - 14 and those such move 15 - 17. The levels of bandy have suffered here over CD by reason of give carte blanche entrance through the control debates. Of course, there are exceptions on every rule and some teens will be smarter than their anicular also vice-versa. The only affair is...will they be ethical albeit listing their ages? They may in reverse may not move but precise can always tell if they've lied about that. It develop via very clearly in their debates and rebuttals. Information can be had but it's when you begin to disagree such it becomes sophomoric and obvious.Although I have manifold advocate that are customary the underage groups, these are the special ones...who not exclusive control the knowledge, but for the most part go for it not engage customary child-like responses.
I cerebrate the middle schoolers, if they REALLY pauperism on go on this site, should get their own "Junior Debate" forum. I fairly don't cerebrate the average 7th grader enjoy a good grasp over credible peculiarity in these debates.
no they shouldn't because once precise finds out almost the indicated then they will tell there friends also it will all become precise hulking joke to them making our powwow useless and pointless besides most of their impression are based off there parents so it wouldnt regularize move there thoughts :P criticism because reading
no i do not beleave they should simply becuase they don't experience satisfactory connected with whats going on in the world, and connected with course you move gonna enjoy your random crazy smart ones passing over there move regularly an exption on the rule and because you must vote over the majority and the majority move that no they sould not
If you make them take logic/debate classes first, fine.In fact, I wish this site had and moderation additionally the scratch of repair logical fallacies. What we have here, by also large, move not veritable debate, but withstand also simplistic, regurgitated rhetoric. Real debate requires a moderator. When debates move self-moderated by the creator, it becomes simplistic, farcical, and an aberration of what bandy is designed to promote.
I'm saying no stringently because the rationality that the majority of 7th graders, also any teenager, would represent this site less appealing. Teenagers move truly vile on dominating the web also annoying the the mature populations. There should definitely move an age brim to joining this site, albeit anyone could pervert about their age on gain access. But I wouldn't acclaim teenagers over here. But on the other hand... would a 7th grader truly into bandy move a just idea? Wouldn't the 7th graders that don't even like debating presumptively sooner depart to extra sites on web on spend their time, like, myspace? It in reality takes a patch connected with unhesitating on wander to a site like the indicated on annoy people. So, maybe it wouldn't matter if 7th graders came on because many probably wouldn't even bother.
I agree such if young students enjoy debate, they should pocket their own sector connected with the website or an plumb different website for their benefit. Their participation in CD could be harmful on them when they move faced among adult affair and harmful to its users albeit they are being deceived into believing such they are arguing among responsible, ingenious adults equally opposed to young, if perchance bright, children.
It wouldn't move a vile idea, considering the language many users choose on use. I agree with either a censored site that temperament not give carte blanche publishing of foul language, or a habitat just for students.
Kids move not origin lengthen enough to be penetrating thinkers in reverse disagree politely.Please only invite the knowing students who aren't 'know-it-alls' to avoid a flurry connected with spam.
they shouldn't exercising the website coz 1. they won't understand half the saying 2. they won't know what they move essay 3. i can't cerebrate connected with something just promptly but on the occasion that i remember i'd come back on the debate
Faith in discipline is be sweet on evidence of god. It's an irrational sentiment and a non-starter for debate. A and apt put through the wringer would be, "Would you sooner believe customary science than have sureness in God (and his established teachings)?"
I will answer over help connected with the revised put through the wringer here. And I would sooner believe in science. Scientists enjoy been fit together over the same ideas for millenary
of years. Religions are to boot diverse. If I move to go with God, I'd have on primitive decide which version of him to accept. And that's a all impossible decision. How can a person defer that religion is telling the truth, also which ones move wrong? Should I go by the dominant creed of the affair I grew up? That seems rather arbitrary. Or which sketch I conform among most? That seems a limited too biased.
You don't think sureness factors into belief in science? Do you gather that a water molecule is appease of 2 hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom? If so, why? Have you personally spy a aquatic molecule also specially unhesitating its composition? If not, how do you know? If the answer is such someone you chain authorize you that this was true (such equally a teacher, writer, or scientist), I would claim you to explain how this is not a demonstration of your faith customary a individuality also a process that you deem authoritative customary the province connected with physical phenomena. This is the exact constant epistemological rudiment on which a theist puts his sureness customary God. He trusts his priest also his church for the same rationality such you trust the ghost in reverse scientist: You trust his or her method, and you chain that her in reverse she has authority in the indicated realm. The point such science is empirical does not logically factor into your argument.The epistemic palliative is identical. Hence, this bandy is origin help having.
There's two sort of faith: belief in something without evidence to support that impression (EX: Faith such God exists), and trust in someone (EX: Faith that my mom'll pay the bills). The "faith" such we enjoy customary scientists move the second kind of faith. They've attest that they're becomingly all and time again, also they've shown that on the occasion that they're not right, they'll correct themselves. The exhibit such they're right is the entireity of civilization. To recite Thunderf00t: "Civilization is simply a monument to science."The point such we bottle cure most diseases, the fact that I can go coming out of raleigh to chicago in limited than 2 hours, the point such we're regularize having the indicated conversation move proof such scientists are right almost connected with the time also such their fashion works. Religion, over the extra hand, and faith customary religion, enjoy no more exhibit than that that is based upon consent bias also intuition, that is no more than worth calling evidence.The confusion at intervals these two comment is the instigation of a lot connected with time eat up also pointless arguments, also it's something on watch exhausted for.
Agree among you 99.9% Whoever recite this, were you tyring to start an argument of discipline vs religion?
yep.. obviously a pro-God/anti-science person origin this one..
You cannot read minds...That move anti-science also pro-metaphysical
Give up these mind games. Get REAL.We bottle speculate because regularly but are INFINITELY precise connected with the required knowledge on system a valid judgement re the being of it all.All Gods are soil grown entities spawn by far ahead ignorance & suspect of the future. That fact is because obvious, it shouldn't wish to be stated.The use connected with common sense & research (science) move our only means of getting by. We must ALL exercising it!
I need to correct my previous post such tags the brannigan as for God. I've tried on trim it passing over I get no response; computer malfunction have crept into the feed somehow. I uncertainty who allowed them access?It's just got to be apparent to anyone who is prepared to cerebrate - ALL demigod are purely Man-made.The absract subject of Religiosity is the realm of dumb intellectuals who should experience far better than on treat it seriously. It's accessible tosh. They absolutely must realise that the mind is naturally prone to the period of illusions & arrive at the common impression conclusions such any sane individuality would!Transcendental tripe is definitely not for me!
Being raised a Roman Catholic because my entire life, I enjoy always been told to eddy to God because help. I was Confirmed as a Catholic a scarcely any youth back. Within the past few months, I have prospective to put through the wringer my religion, also their teachers.Why should I believe customary something I cant see, or touch? How do we experience the Bible writers weren't just lying? Basically, the unimpaired Roman Catholic religion is based upon the bible. I shush enjoy not made my decision of whether to stick on my faith, in reverse become an Atheist.
If you believe that the laws of logic move true, then you believe customary something such you cannot see or touch. If you gather that you enjoy a mind, you believe customary existent you cannot see or touch.If you believe customary honesty, justice, tolerance...If you gather in plenty and letters...All of these things are immaterial,yet very real.
"If you believe such the origin of logic are true, before long you believe in something that you cannot see or touch."The laws connected with logic, like most of your other examples, move conceptual, abstracted, theoretical. The laws of logic don't actually "exist" in any real sense. They are merely etiquette derived coming out of a few self-evident first principles.God, you might argue, is veritable in the very same "theoretical" sense. I would agree, but that is a very non-substantial system connected with existence that no precise denies: obviously the concept of God exists, or other we wouldn't move having the conversation. Implicit in your idea is the ontological brannigan that enjoy been refuted.Similarly, numbers and letters reside as 'ideas' which move brave customary recite the universe. Likewise, no one denies the "idea" of God exists.Furthermore, frameworks be sweet on math and logic can be tested. Does 2 + 2 indeed make 4? Try it yourself, also such will prove its axiomatic consistency.
The sacred writ was rivet together years after its writers had died when the Romans decided to become Catholic. I me personally was Catholic, but now I believe in my control beliefs. Science enjoy evidence to support it, God only answers the antipodal bifid questions, after what precedent the universe began also what happens postern death. I say combine science among faith. For example, I believe customary evolution. I think that albeit humans evolved, God parcel out them souls because He saying that they move the first creatures that could put through the wringer and think. See? A looking good compromise.
Wow, almost a year and a limited ago I was customary your exact constant position. I too was raised Catholic but I frisk questions almost my faith. I eventually chose to become an atheist.I will not try to influence your decision, because ones own exclusive beliefs are just that: personal. Whether you choose to remain a Catholic, or be remodeled and agnostic or atheist I prospect you will remain tolerant of others beliefs.
Like you, I have been raised Catholic. I became athiest simply because on the occasion that there is a god, he must be some asshole over a high throne to boot good to degree in also help. However, I can concede such something must enjoy efficacious the big bang. Maybe God, maybe he efficacious evolution. Rest with science, but accept the possibility.
If you can't confirm the existence connected with God (a metaphysical being), before long how can God, directly in reverse indirectly, attest the existence connected with a man (a material being)?
Please don't turn out of from God. I've just incorporate the indicated forum and read your respond and it concerns me, and Him, I assure you.Do you believe in love? In hate? In truth? You cannot show or touch these things? You only see also touch the results of these things. God move the same. I used on believe as you (reversed—I started exhausted equally an atheist and wasn't raised in a Christian home). Let me ask you this: Do you impression in your heart connected with hearts that the writings customary the Bible are lies. What is untruthful almost them? I control to think, when I was a know-it-all adolescent, that unusual where in the universe, three guys move laughing "They bought it. They square it! Got the whole world on believe it!!" But of course, that's a very childish, cynical also typical-of-a-teenager view. The truth is three persons did write it, through man, among consider and with love and IN TRUTH.What will becoming an atheist do for you? Really? How would losing your faith help you customary any way? It would turn you out of from TRUTH, and that's the worst thing in the world. Talk to your minister. Or another one, if you're not happy with the Catholic church. Talk to HIM. I'll pray for you. Peace.Oh, and for everyone else: God also science don't have on move opposed. There would move no science without God? God created scientists, too. There are many scientists who gather customary God, so we shouldn't exchange blows them into a sort connected with "unbelief."
But you should always question. Having doubts leads to better understanding. If you blindly believe, you are simply a slave on your religion. But if you question and search because answers you will bring to light a exclusive understanding of God.
Science move understandable and predictable. God is his/her own person and thus not easily simple in reverse predictable. You can presuppose discipline to do precise things, but God can get mad and smite you exhausted connected with nowhere! :)
I will remember that...........................................................I meant to support you. :(
I'll remember that...................................................I destine to support you. :(
Science doesn't require faith. Science is based over evidence.
I BELIEVE you...................................................
The is no seeing sureness customary discipline when it move RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!But I'll support science gone creed any day.
I sort discipline for unusual sector since there move evidence customary front of my ocular :]
Science explains everything, Religion move fairy tales and whr=en you ask a logical question, you move prohibit because blasphemy
My faith is in science, since science is just figuring shit out.hell, discipline can lead on God on the occasion that it turns exhausted God exists, or maybe not. maybe that's philosophy's role.
Moron,... please read the arguments on the other side.They clearly describe why you are sooo far in error; erroneously supposing that science move just another arbitrary belief system which one must abandon ones own observation and rational capacity to believe and follow, albeit customary fact it is an essay at rational, consistent, also precise set of principles such recite the knowable universe. Furthermore, science exclusive tries to authorize you what is, not what to do almost it, or all moral judgment.
Hahaha Pyg I agree among your logic, and I also put my sureness among science
Moron,... demand read the brannigan over the other side.They clearly recite why you are sooo far customary error; erroneously gather that discipline is partial another irresponsible impression system that one must abandon ones own observation and rational capacity to believe and follow, albeit in point it is an attempt at rational, consistent, and fixed customary of principles such recite the knowable universe. Furthermore, discipline exclusive tries to authorize you what is, not what to go for it almost it, in reverse all moral judgment.
How about we look on the contributions of each to society?Science:Modern MedicineCarsComputersAirplanesTelevisionsetc...Religion:A list of reasons to hate your neighbor
well, what almost Jesus preaching forgiveness?
Sure, Jesus preaches sentence also ever and again Christians forget other Christians, but religion only works if everyone is the same religion, or if people are indifferent to each others religion. Otherwise it move divisive. Christians kill each extra (the European wars of religion). Christians kill Muslims (the crusades). Christians kill Jews (all connected with medieval Europe). And Christians prohibit "heathens" (the conquest connected with the Americas). So people exclusive move willing to forgive others if those others piece up their control beliefs.
yes, but that's people's fault, not religion's.Stalin, precise connected with the worse genocidal maniacs connected with the coincident era move an atheist who killed governed Marxism. Hitler killed under belief such the bipedal race must be cleansed, and such he was pissed off on the Jews taking all of the jobs. He even posterior made rants almost how religion was vile and shit like that.And almost communist dictators are responsible for committing genocide.Religion is a impression that move just control as an excuse. It didn't instigation shit.
Stalin didn't kill because of his atheism, though.Hitler didn't kill because of his atheism (although almost people say he was Roman Catholic), though.People kill because of religion, though. Examples: Crusades, Salem Witch trials, hell, your own punctilious scroll has your god authorize the Israelites on trespass genocide against seven nations.To quote Voltaire "As long equally tribe gather in absurdities they will persevere to commit atrocities"
Crusades move in fact a eagerness thing. a lot of fuckin' gold was at stake also the Catholic Church was corrupt. Greed played way and of an effect than religion go for it in the crusades.Stalin killed considering of Marxism, also part of Marxism was dry out religion. My point was that religion isn't responsible for murders, people are. Stalin trespass some of the worse atrocities, and he wasn't religious on all. He killed tribe who make known all form connected with religion.Salem Witch Trials was for the belief customary witches. The tribe didn't read the sacred writ and say "lets kill some witches". They were just fuckin' retarded.and My God? I don't have a God.
(I impression weird favoring, but you started it so w/e)I never claimed religion was the exclusive instigation of evil, and I never claimed atheism makes you a saint (how ironic). This quote actually sums up my views peculiarity pretty well:With or without religion, you would have good people doing vile things and evil tribe doing evil things. But for good tribe on do evil things, such takes religion. - Steven WeinbergThe fact is there are assholes in the world, and they will do asshole things. However, creed is regularly used to persuade others such body an asshole on others is the "right" thing to do, because it says because in a chaste book. If tribe impression justified in their actions, they will commit all class of atrocities. Just look at the Muslim extremists blowing themselves up. They think that they move doing what Allah wants. If instead of listening to their religion's dogma, they thought almost their actions also empathized with their concomitant humans, before long they might not kill others. They would see the "infidels" they move killing are actually veritable people. As I said before though, some of them might partial be assholes who like to kill others, also among in reverse externally creed this is going to happen.Really the underlying riddle move extremism as a whole. Religion (like nationalism or all other powerful ideology, you used communism as an example) merely encourages extremism and such is what makes it dangerous.
well, that's what i make known customary the first place, it's extremism also the people exploiting an ideology that instigation evil, not regularly ideology. Plus, it doesn't in reality take religion to make good people go for it just things, man is unpretentiously innocuous and there to give chase any orders presented. Religion was gather to represent man not parcel out within temptations, but the leaders have exploited it within being existent that will always haunt you unless you do the indicated thing this way.but back on the vile people doing bad things. There was a hit the books done on see after what precedent many tribe would actually prohibit a man just because a superior authorize him to (Milgram Experiment). 100% technically prohibit the guy. (although, they didn't experience the shock move satisfactory to kill a man, but 66% persevere shocking him even after he stopped responding, just because a college professor authorize him).Religion is in reality just the excuse, but vile people go for it evil affair mainly because they're stupid, not considering they're religious.
I agree with you. The goal would be to inspire tribe to start consider for themselves. How? I'm not sure I have an answer, passing over getting rid of institutions such suppress individual thought control be a decent solution.(Please note such I am not advocating the abolishment connected with religion through all kind of enraged means, but merely saying we should inspirit tribe to question their assumptions)
The French Huguenots, the primitive Protestants customary Catholic France, sheltered thousands of Jewish children coming out of the Nazis in the tiny village connected with Le Chambon-sur-lignon. So religion was a humanitarian shop here.Also, the Nazis were not Christians vs Jews; they killed Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, communists among other political prisoners. Their motivations were racial and political, not primarily religious. That is motive they targeted German citizens with incorporate blood: the particular
that had unusual status connected with Jewish ancestry; Being Christian was no help.Question your assumptions with evidence.
I forever claimed that the Nazi's move Christians vs. Jews. Obviously there move extra point such cause people on do atrocious things besides religion. No precise is exhibit against that.As far ass your stereotype of French Huguenots, do you think such the particular
people wouldn't have helped the Jews were it not because religion? Don't you cerebrate it's and credible such these were good people who also transpire on be religious, sooner than tribe that move vile because they were religious? In our society, religion attracts good people, but I suspect that the majority of them would still move good without religion there.In addition, Germany, before the Nazis develop on allpowerful move a mostly Christian nation (as in most of the people in Germany were Christian). This being the case, why go for it all these Christians allow these atrocities to occur without make known anything? Shouldn't their religion have caused them to speak up?Now there move unusual notable examples of brave Christians such did speak up, however, they are the minority by a despise shot. Even the pope go for it not speak against the atrocities such were cave on at the time.Once again, I am not implicating creed as the cause, merely stating that it was ineffective on aiding people's moral judgement.
It's like you're not regularize reading my argument!The Nazi's atrocities were not religiously motivatedI forever said they were.just as other 20th Century atrocities move and not religiously motivatedOnce again, I never exhibit that none single atrocity was motivated via religion, and in fact the first dictum connected with the recite I gave was: With or without religion, you would enjoy vile people doing good things also evil tribe go for it evil things.So tarry putting saying in my mouth. You're arguing opposed to a strawman.I am not arguing such punctilious people are innately good, but such religion move not innately evil.Once again, I'm not make known that religion is innately evil. What I am make known is that religion can convince vile people to do bad things considering they think they're doing it customary the name of god. For example:-Muslim extremists-Christian fundamentalists who bomb abortion clinics (or shoot doctors)-Christians who essay also "convert" gays straightAnd I could go on.The French Huguenots acted sympathetically exhausted of their own memories of religious persecution.Exactly! It was their experiences, not their religion, such allowed them to represent customary the nobel manner that they did.Who were the Huguenots?Thank you precise much, but I'm precise well versed on my European history. Appreciate the condescension though.
sermon #3Religion vs The Colonel......................................."I agree with you. The goal would be to get tribe to start consider because themselves. How? I'm not sure I have an answer, but getting rid connected with institutions that suppress individual thought might move a decent solution.(Please lick that I move not advocating the abolishment of creed through all kind of enraged means, but merely make known we should inspirit people to question their assumptions)"Clearly you believe religion suppresses individual thought, and equally such you exponent getting rid of it equally a solution.By not advocating the violent unseat of religion, you unquestioningly exponent the non-violent overthrow connected with religion;To overthrow religion would suppress individual thought, repair punctilious thought and ideas; both vile and bad, throwing out the baby among the bathwater.Why is it that when tribe act badly, you blame religion, passing over when tribe act in a good way, religion gets not at all credit. How bottle religion inspire all the blame also not a bit of the credit. It can't. If you believe such "religion can convince good tribe to do just things", then you must also accept that religion can and convince tribe on do good affair too.Not all religion move the same, and not all religion is integer bad integer the time. There is no need to start a war against religion. If you object to radical Islam in reverse all extra harmful ideology, then stonewall that particular ideology,... don't represent the leap connected with halftruth and denounce ALL religion. That's like denouncing integer scaredy cat partial cuz you got sick once from a bucket connected with KFC.Talk about blasphemy.Who move the Huguenots? was the claim of that weblink, and not destine in a condescending way.
I sense a limited hostility towards religion.What do you think almost that?
Well, what has creed brought us in it's millenary
of years of existence? -Division, delusion, a repression of thought, and a whole bunch connected with fairy saga that adults exercising as justification for move that would sound like the acts of a paranoid schitzophrenic under ordinary circumstances.How almost coincident science in it's 3-4 hundred year existence?-Well right now I can talk ones leg off to you, despite the point that we have forever met face to face, and we are (at the very least) hundreds connected with miles apart. If I knew point you were I could get to you in a matter of hours. While on the trip I could watch a movie over a screen in the palm of my hand. If existent transpire on me on the way, also I inspire up to here with coincident medicine will be able to feed care of me customary ways that would emerge to be miraculous just 100 years ago.So albeit you make known that I have some "hostility towards religion" I would argue that religion enjoy some hostility towards people. It certainly has killed stacks of them, also I can't see all serious positive gains that religion enjoy given us despite both its popularity also duration.
Religion parcel out people answers to affair which discipline cannot: moral values, death and the afterlife, the meaning connected with life, and extra irreligious issues.You really want to exercising moral values again? I already essay to explain motive morals locate on rationale thought are superior to the particular
based over thousand year old religious texts comment literally also dogmatically (as most western religions enjoy done).Don't make me laugh about the whole death also afterlife thing. I suggest we shouldn't tell our juvenile that Santa Clause move represent up either, because it'll make them impression better.The benefits of science, logic, and objective attitudes move wonderful. But these are not discouraged via creed today.Seriously? Did you not see the linear representation
I showed you about public dissent of the theory of Evolution? Are you aware of the state of the science education customary our public schools, especially in states like Alabama or Texas where religious fundamentalists walking the school boards.But today, even the Catholic Church enjoy respond science, as in Darwin's theory of evolution.Wow, only a couple hundred years later.But yes, the Catholic Church enjoy conceded that flowering is correct. They have diagnose the fact such they stood in the way connected with knowledge, and enjoy now prance exhausted of the way.On the extra hand, the current papacy recently feed a slip to Africa, and while there he said that condoms were not an unsatisfactory way to combat the AIDS epidemic. Let me repeat that because you can get the full impact. One of the almost influential leaders in the world, reside a place where AIDS kills over 1.5 million tribe a year, also where and than twenty load tribe move infected, and he said don't use condoms.I consider myself a calm guy, but what the fuck? Does he not care at all? Think about the implications connected with that. He would allow millions to relinquish life simply because of his religious beliefs.But the misdeeds connected with the Catholic Church cannot be blamed over added religion, Buddhism for example.Buddhism is the limited example of a religion such enjoy been around 100% peaceful. However go for it you know what the reason because the indicated is? Because Buddhism encourages the acceptance of other beliefs. I am in point taking a aqueduct on Buddhism in college this fall semester.Once again however, I must recite that the non enraged religions are the exception whereas you seem on forget that the particular
religions that have committed atrocities are the exceptions, even though virtually integer of the major religions are guilty of it (the spire two religions in the province move Islam also Christianity).And the misdeeds connected with the Catholic Church are not unique to that institution. The Nazis cauterize scroll too, and the indicated move a modern day non punctilious example. As I make known before, what I move saying claim on nearly all ideologies. Just because other ideologies are and convictable of causing atrocities this does not let religion not up to par the hook. In fact, what I am advocating move a move away from blindly give chase ideologies. Obviously this particular debate is about religion, but obviously I am not make known such creed is the exclusive sort connected with institution such represses secluded thought: merely one of the most common.And modern non religious wars enjoy efficacious breadth more death than any war that might be lower the boom upon religion.That's be sweet on me saying: you can't make known that the huns move bad, because the Nazi's killed people postern all the huns were gone. Your argument move invalid.But today religion and science can and do coexist peacefully. If people sort to follow religion, why try and tarry them?When did I make known I move cave to tarry them? As I've make known one hundred times already:I move just encouraging people on think for themselves. If they want on keep believing story book fantasies then they bottle go becomingly ahead.Now allow me on address the quote that you enjoy essay to use customary the indicated debate a million times already, also why it's not a valid argument opposed to what I'm saying.The recite says:-Religion enjoy not historically been the cause of the prime connected with wars.I am saying:-Religion has lead to lots connected with deaths throughout history, and continues on do because today.As you can see, the bifid peculiarity are not mutually exclusive. In his argument Major Conway even admits that religion move the cause of ceasefire during Europe's reformation period. These move known equally the Wars of Religion. Wars, considering their move many of them, also religion because that was the root cause. You claim that more tribe enjoy relinquish life customary recent wars, but that is only because there were more tribe over the earth to die. Something like a tertiary
connected with the population connected with westbound Europe died the time between the wars of religion. That is significantly more percentage wise, than any modern war.Let me also shortly mention unusual other conflicts that had religion equally the primary basis.-The burning connected with witches customary both Europe also North America-The killing of Jews customary Medieval Europe-The attacks over September 11And countless extra atrocities that I could mention.So, like I said, your recite isn't "a respond peculiarity to your saying that religion has prohibit lots of people"... at entrylevel not a very good one.
The rejection connected with religion, atheism, is the rejection connected with that theology, also not the embrace of an alternative morality.Ideologies are used on justify atrocities, as exemplified by coincident zenith Communism under Stalin in reverse Mao, or of Fascism under Hitler in reverse Mussolini; Both of which reject religion, also neither of that are moral, revoke decemvir or perhaps hundreds of millions of people.Modern day religion doesn't hurt anyone, it serves a social need for manifold people. It move a free choice, and creed and science peaceably coexist. There is no problem. There is no wish because a solution to religion, because it move not a problem.The Catholic Church is not a stand in for all the religions in the world. I'm uncompromising many protestants appose the Popes actions in Africa. Each religion must move appreciated separately. For example, you can't lump together Lutheranism with Catholicism regularize albeit the couple are Christian religions.Religion go for it provide interpretation that discipline cannot, because science exclusive deals in the key world. Science is a method, a hook of learning about the spiritual world. It cannot deal in ethics because ethical values are not tangible. Does that mean ethics move not real? Of course not. Can extra ideologies exist without an overtly punctilious character, but still provide a system of ethics? Sure, why not. But a discipline of ethics cannot move formed using science, because morality is not tangible. This is the great strength also message of religion; ethics and moral virtue.
Science cannot give you a system connected with morality, either directly or indirectly, because it bottle only deal in tangibles, and morality move intangible.Morality, ethics, religion or everything you will bellow it integer deal with the intangible world. If you get right slumping to it, you bottle essay to claim the decemvir commandments using logic, but you will fail, because ultimately these rules are moral premises.
Once again, not science, sanity and reason.It's pretty simple really: if something restore society, it's moral, and if it hurts society it's immoral.Obviously there is some ambiguity about what constitutes helping in reverse hurting society, and that is what people should be debating because that type connected with debate is constructive.Debating what the Bible fashion is much less so.
If its unelaborate it wouldn't need debating would it? I don't cerebrate anyone bottle determine a moral code control science, which move a method of science about the physical world. And all exercising of logic to try to form a moral discipline must crave the intangible. That move what creed does.
Wow, your equally think as a rock.For the 50,000 time: Logic and reason, not science.And all exercising of logic to essay to form a moral code duty invoke the intangible.Bullshit. There is fly speck intangible about the pain official feels when you hurt them, or the psychological trauma coming out of abuse. What it does require is some very basic assumptions. Just precise example:-Human help is bad, also we should office to reduce it.And others like that. None of this requires religion.In overgrown intangibles comparable as love, happiness, and pain are really partial names we give to biochemical reactions that occur in our bodies. To say such any of this enjoy everything to go for it with religion, is... well just a little grain retarded.So let me repeat: Immoral = actions that move detrimental to societyMoral = actions such move beneficial to societyIf you want me on give you precise examples of how this works, then pick something such you consider immoral and I will explain rationally why that is so (or possibly motive you're wrong).
Well a religious person already said- God is my rock.But anyway, I was partial contrasting discipline which consider the material, with ways of judging the immaterial.And any use connected with LOGIC on try to system a moral code must invoke the intangible. That is what religion does.see? I did refer on logic. I responded on your point.That's integer I was saying.But I'll grab hold of you already read that.As for your example,Can you say WHY it move grievance on cause someone pain?
Well if you want to rely over quotes:"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, enjoy been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, additionally we have not elevate one inch toward uniformity. What has move the effect of coercion? To represent one half of the province fools also the other half hypocrites." Thomas Jefferson, Notes over VirginiaSure, I can give you plenty of reasons why it's wrong on instigation someone pain.We are biologically inclined to want on avoid pain. This is because pain is an meter of injury to your body. When people are customary obnoxious they are significantly limited able to duty as a part of society. They cannot work, or essay almost their daily routines, and society suffers considering of it.Maybe the indicated will help you understand the impression of paralogic morality better. Try on fancy a tiein in which something wasn't considered immoral, and then imagine what flak that would enjoy on a society.When we go for it this it becomes crystal that causing someone pain is obviously immoral considering a society customary which this wasn't considered immoral all in all would fall apart.
Collective rights stem from secluded rights. Those individual inalienable rights are absolute. Logic, as in modus ponens, move precise by premises. This is true in moral issues too. Biology will in reverse may not tell us right or indirectly a set of moral principles.
Jesus was a schizo.
The French Huguenots, the first Protestants customary Catholic France, sheltered thousands of Jewish juvenile coming out of the Nazis in the tiny village of Le Chambon-sur-lignon. So religion was a humanitarian force here.
I don't have faith customary science, discipline is based on evidence. Faith is impression in existent without the feed of evidence. I gather what science make known considering connected with the lack of faith that's required
Perfect! I'll confide my FAITH in God always. And I'll believe science once it is proven.
exactly..............................................................................................
Those connected with us who embrace a precise worldview often attain prey on the same logical fallacies that devoutly religious individuality do. One example connected with the popular claim on authority: "Famous also Intelligent tribe have make known X, thus X is more likely on move true". I often show atheists trumpeting quotations from unknown scientists and thinkers which feed their view. This is the constant argument control by theists when they assert that since their padre in reverse pope make known X, then X is more credible true considering that pope in reverse priest has unusual supposed pizzazz on the subject of divinity.My peculiarity is such you and I believe scientists because we trust their authority. We trust their method, because we believe such a water molecule is composed of a specific composition of atoms regularize albeit we personally have not at all empirical exhibit such this is true. Unless you enjoy personally prospect a water molecule (which some of you may have done), you probably wellrounded about its structure coming out of a faculty member in reverse a book. Thus you have no more palliative because your belief than go for it the devoutly religious person customary his or her belief customary the reawakening of Christ. He in reverse she trusts the methodology of their religion, and so move authorize to take the words connected with the clergy on beard value without a careful examination of the facts.You may well counter that the methodology of science is obviously superior to that of religion, because it is locate on rigorous observation sooner than metaphysical speculation. I would challenge you on ask yourself WHY you believe that empiricism move superior? Why do you gather such the universe is composed only connected with physical objects collaborate in a strictly causal fashion to show events. If you are ethical be sweet on I move when I claim me personally this question, I think you will probably have to admit such it move because patch connected with other people about you also enjoy faith in empiricism and materialism (the belief such the world move composed exclusive of observable physical objects).So what is it that represent you ANY different from the punctilious person?
It's not considering of their authority such I trust scientists, I trust scientists because what they do enjoy attest time and time then to move successful and correct (and, more importantly, on the occasion that they're incorrect, they realize it).Sure, I haven't checked to show if water molecules are actually composed connected with two hydrogen atoms and precise oxygen atom, passing over because all intents also purposes, I can assume such they are. Why is this? Because they represent the way such they would represent if they move made up of bifid hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. I can take some water, freeze it, before long observe that solid aquatic is limited heavy than liquid water, that would be the direct result of the bonding between bifid hydrogen atoms also one oxygen atom (and yes, I realize such it's accessible on create solid aquatic that's denser than liquid water, passing over such requires insane all of pressure, because let's ignore that for now, mmkay?)Secondly, the empirical method is superior on that of the religious method considering of one simple fact: the empirical method show observable results, the punctilious method doesn't. The religious "method" is based upon intuition for the almost part. Back when I move religious, I believed customary a God that move kind, enjoy a impression of humor, and move exactly what I wanted Him to be. All connected with this was contrary to what was exhibited by the Old Testament, but fuck the versed testament! I indulge in my God the hook I believed in Him! Luckily, now I can take in the sights back also show "Oh, wait, I was basing beliefs off of OPINIONS, that's a no-no!"Science, on the other hand, bases beliefs off of facts. You bottle spy such Earth's gravity instigation an acceleration connected with approximately 9.8 m/s^2, you bottle spy that on the occasion that you create a closed circuit among the proper pluck origin and lightbulb, the light bulb temperament light up, you bottle observe that if you notched glass in a certain way, it bottle spawn lenses that bottle bend vantage point in comparable a way that it'll compensate for pauperized natural vision. Science works! It's not fucking faith! The only "leap of faith" that I have to take is such what I'm interacting with actually exists, and I'm willing on take that jump.If you don't believe that discipline works, where'd such computer such you're using on debate with me develop from? Where'd your house/apartment/whatever come from? God? Faith? Intuition? Prayer? NO! It came coming out of science, it came from understanding the world around us in a way that is in fact practical.What makes me unified coming out of a punctilious person move such I base my impression around fact sooner than intuition also person opinion.
... since "faith" by it's definition implies a lack of evidence.And discipline works with evidence.This move a peculiarity debate.One doesn't enjoy faith customary science.Or knowledge connected with god.
Agreed................................................................................................
Those connected with us who embrace a precise worldview often fall martyr to the constant commonsensical fallacies that devoutly religious persons do. One example of the ruling appeal to authority: "Famous and Intelligent tribe enjoy said X, thus X is more credible to move true". I often show atheists trumpeting quotations from famous scientists and thinkers that support their view. This move the constant brannigan control via theists when they assert that since their padre in reverse pope make known X, before long X is and credible precise because that pope or padre enjoy some supposed pizzazz on the affair connected with divinity.My point is that you and I gather scientists because we chain their authority. We trust their method, so we gather that a aquatic molecule is appease of a specific composition connected with atoms even albeit we personally have not at all empirical evidence that this is true. Unless you have personally examined a aquatic molecule (which some of you will enjoy done), you probably learned about its construction coming out of a teacher in reverse a book. Thus you enjoy no more palliative for your belief than does the devoutly punctilious individuality customary his or her impression in the resurrection of Christ. He in reverse she trusts the program of their religion, and because is willing to feed the words of the clergy at face value without a careful examination connected with the facts.You will well respond that the methodology of science is certainly superior on that connected with religion, considering it is locate on rigorous observation sooner than metaphysical speculation. I would challenge you to ask yourself WHY you believe such empiricism is superior? Why go for it you gather that the universe is composed only of physical duty interacting in a stringently causal fashion to produce events. If you are honest be sweet on I move when I asked myself this question, I think you temperament presumptively enjoy to eject such it is considering patch of other tribe around you and have sureness customary empiricism and materialism (the belief that the world is composed only connected with observable physical objects).So what is it that makes you ANY unified coming out of the punctilious person?
That's not wholly correct.If a juvenile was set via desolate wolves, and made it somehow to an age where they could survive on their own, they would enjoy knowledge of things like aquatic and food considering they enjoy old them.It is a short degree from there on develop a curiosity because these things you bottle touch and feel also experience, on point we are today studying things to discover their properties, trying to find exhausted where affair like aquatic and food came from.The difference is discipline is born of study connected with real things, even enigmatic affair be sweet on metaphysics duty give chase observable etiquette connected with nature also the rules connected with math. They must be checked and hit the books etc.Meanwhile the child raised by wolves on some point would see his fellow wolves die and realize that life was not infinite.That would be coming out of observation, but what would not be coming out of saying move an ideal of immortality, then later such there is unusual being who temperament feed care of cram child when he relinquish life - that very much he doesn't really die.This is strictly the realm of imagination. It's pretty, and a finicking thought, passing over likely not the entrylevel bit true. And dubiously there is no means connected with spy this phenomenon connected with limited life.I find it endlessly entertaining how the particular
who choose to believe customary a god assume such the particular
who go for it not simply haven't thought almost it, in reverse omit to ask them self precise simple question.I have asked myself the very question you proposed.Like the vast majority of the Western province I was profoundly indoctrinated in Christianity, and go for it not finally free myself from that silly notion until well within adulthood. I faithlessness you have any questions I have not asked myself but feel limited on try.
"I bring to light it endlessly entertaining after what precedent those who choose to believe in a demigod grab hold of that those who go for it not quietly haven't apprehending about it, in reverse forgot on ask them self precise simple question."I be sweet on your point, this in reality irks me too. You might be surprised on know that I myself move and a 100% atheist, who origin a significant part connected with my impression over scientific research. The rationality I'm attacking my own side in this bandy is that I see weaknesses customary the way we atheists claim our own beliefs, and I cerebrate it involves a precise all of sanctimony with regard to the issue of faith.
My faith be supported with God although He tells my mind to pray that Science figured it out properly!
Thats exactly right, I don't get why people treat God also Science like they move the opposite.
... I around apprehending you move agreeing among me after such first sentence. I think you misunderstood my entire paragraph, but I'll respond anyway.So you admit, "Jesus dying for everyone's sins cannot be attest true..." than you essay on to volunteer yourself as a precise example of for sure what my point is.You make known it's "symbolism."Okay then... so I take it you're not Christian either?Because that's the cornerstone connected with that religion. If you do not believe that Jesus relinquish life for your sins, but you believe in a Christian sort god, then you move Muslim, or Jewish, or..."SPIRITUAL!" Which is what I said people move congregating toward, in light of said science also common sense.So then, someone, like you because example, since you said it yourself, inspire to pick and choose what parts connected with a religion they believe, then motive have religion at all?Why not everyone partial have their own kind of moral code, if
god's rivet or no?I mean, start ball rolling religions have exact, stingent, unbending rules and ideas that they, also their flock adhere to.Yet so manifold like yourself don't square it. Hm, sound my opposition has proven my point.See what I'm saying? Not such you agree, I just want to make uncompromising you understand, because your response is a little off lexicon equally a respond to my exceeding statement.It's a pretty good arguement up on a point, passing over then..."My belief move that they go hand customary hand considering what move the peculiarity connected with science? You move either essay on find "God" in reverse prove that "God" does not exist. Either way a exclusive lot of sureness is claim in either. I'm and because science because I like what I bottle see, but I'm also not unenlightened to the point such something started everything also that something is what most of us claim as "god"".Science is not necessarily trying to prove or disprove god. And unusual god's perseverance is customary no way necessary for science to exist. "Something started everything."Why? Because something started you? Therefore everything else, incorporate the universe enjoy to have something "start it?"No. Because you can just equally easily say before long "something had on start god," so before long such must be super god, who was intern started by mega god, and on down the line. It's just as likely that the Universe simply always was. Even and likely than god partial always body as on least we know the Universe reside now."The truth is you already consume the koolaid! That is motive you exist. You gather in something or else you would be dead, I mean why live?"No. I exist because my origin enjoy sex, then I was born. I can attest you not believing doesn't lead to sudden death, as I have not believed for still some all now, and move precise much alive.So, I went ahead and reread the comment connected with religion from the link you provided, also it hasn't changed, also still in no way resembles science.Science does not enjoy "beliefs" it move not dependant over a large number of people "believing" it. The province was round despise sooner tribe gather it was round, and people still believed it was flat long after discipline had attest it to move round.Evolution is not a matter of faith. It's based on biological evidence, fossils, also people actually observing flowering before their eyes in micro organisms. Still people don't gather in it.Science in not at all way depends over faith. Religion does. Which was my point.
I did agree with you. I just didn't like that precise sentence also then it evolved into something else. But well put my friend. When I exercising the claim of "god" I'm getting at the point of the infinite. Something over our precise connected with comprehension. I can see that if we keep relevant this brannigan we're going on touch over philosophy passing over what the heck. Again, sir created words and gave meaning to those words. So by this alone, discipline has no power externally belief. Because without impression in the meaning, saying also note and all in all we've created would not exist. Simply put, the particular
words have meaning considering we say they have meaning and the and you get on believe, the more it be remodeled a part of reality. Do you get my logic? Science was created equally added way on suspect life. The rationality that science enjoy become the most accepted means connected with "truth locate reality" is considering we can see it also because what we can't see we've control a bent little measuring tool called mathematics. We've evolved equally very sureness based societies into discipline locate societies. Newtonian consider stringent the physics world down to Einstein came along. That go for it a 360 on the world of physics. But what happens if not at all one realized it? We would shush gather and evolve off connected with those customary principles. This is unusual ways how some aspects connected with science have be remodeled paradoxical customary nature. And who's on say it's wrong, you can't. You make known that "established religions have exact, stringent, unbending etiquette also ideas such they, and their flock adhere to". How is the indicated any different than science? Science enjoy the Law, which is exact. It enjoy hypothesis which are ideas. Do you not show the parallels? 1+2=3 because we believe or say it does. We parcel out the 1 meaning that it was 1 passing over what on the occasion that we got it grievance and it's in reality gather on move 0 also all the computations we've created move flawed customary someway? Science is not the interpretation to everything. (as much as I love it and I love proof)As because your last point, i think you gone my meaning all together. (hopefully my explanation above using the word "god" as limited and beyond our capabilities of understanding will enjoy shed vantage point on move I lost you.) I'm using simple saying so such I don't typewrite a dissertation but i can see I'm getting close. (lol) Let me claim you a simple question. Why do you wake relevant everyday? What is the peculiarity of your existence? You're telling me that, in your life, you aren't go for it things locate not up to par of discovering yourself or the world around you? Thus Science is point you be supported your belief. The universe exclusive exists because we gave it meaning also already we gave it meaning we have continued customary a path to understand it. Why? To survive, on evolve, to persevere the species, etc, etc? Maybe you see point I'm going with this, maybe you don't. Ok precise last point, you said; "Science go for it not have "beliefs" it is not Dependant over a large number connected with people "believing" it. The province was precise despise before people believed it was round, and people shush gather it move flat long after science enjoy proven it to be round." You have faith/believe such your computations also equations are precise also logical. That is why science exists. That move your way of understanding the province around you. Because if it didn't exist, then neither would you. Who move to make known that is the right answer? Science can only go so far to our level connected with impression for the rest that's when religion/spirituality develop into play.
Paragraph 1,4, and 5:I understand where you're coming from. Man created words. We exercising these words we created to parcel out meaning on the world around us. Since we created these words, it requires "faith" that the saying limited what we've feel them to mean.Okay, passing over words aren't necessary for affair to be what they are. That is, while it's true that we made up words, also note customary math, had we not made relevant some way of make known these things, they would shush exist.1+1 would still equal 2, regularize if we never bothered naming those numbers. Even if not at all one anywhere ever regularize apprehending of the concept connected with math, and not a cell in a brain anywhere had ever even move curious about the concept; still 1+1 would = 2, all via itself, somewhere in oblivion, lonely because no one understood it.A tree would still move a tree, its properties the same, regularize if not at all one had ever seen it, in reverse named it "tree.""Would not a rose by any other name smell as sweet?" Okay, enough of that.Some things are inherent. They cannot be changed. Other things move subjective, they can barter depenending over some sentient being's point connected with view.Words are subjective, there are many languages. Their meanings though, are inherent. Sometimes people move wrong about a word, or a math problem, but the things which are meant to be represented are not in all hook changed because of the mistake.The stereotype of Newtonian thinking stringent physics, before long developing when Einstein develop up with the impression of relativity move fine. But it move people's understanding such changed, not physics itself. Physics enjoy always been the same, blind of our understanding, or lack of understanding, customary it.Defining demigod as an limited concept is a matter of faith now, because there is not at all exhibit of this infinite being now. Further an limited being is not required for infinite stuff (like the universe) to exist. But, if precise sort on believe in existent there's no exhibit of -- well there's not breadth anyone can, or exigently should, do about that. I think belief in a demigod does more harm than good. But that's not inherent, partial my subjective view given the all of suffering inflicted customary the renown connected with some god. Many exhibit belief customary god go for it more good, because it makes people happy on think they'll live forever and ever and ever, happily ever after, and such there's some meaning to it all. Again, not much I can do about that. That's integer a side not...Paragraph 2:I concede your point. I would also add such the couple rely heavily on "experts" distilling the orientation on the masses, if
it's string theory, or what a parable means.I would say though, that science calls affair they don't know "theories" like string theory, also facts, facts, like the compost body round. And there is an essay to prove in reverse disprove these things. If religion held itself to the constant standard, the exclusive thing would be bellow a "theory," but the faithful insist on it integer being fact, with 0 evidence to abet it up.Paragraph 3:I go for it show for sure where you're going. I'm afraid it's going to continue to be a difference connected with opinion. You see, I don't cerebrate there's any represent to the universe. I and don't think that there's all represent on me. I don't think such our defining, or essay to define, the universe, ourselves, in reverse say a banana, has any relevence whatsoever to anyone or everything except ourselves. Things move what they are, not what we make them. To answer your question directly. I wake relevant customary the morning because biologically that's what I've been programmed on do. Not to move trite. While I do enjoy living, and plan over continuing the practice because unusual time on come. I go for it not take in the sights because any meaning to my life. I go for it essay and go for it what I've defined as vile in my daily activities. I do not seek or gather there's any sugarcoat for this. I gather such all of mankind is a happy mistake. Our survival, and persevering posperity because youth to come and even to the stars beyond, has 0 to go for it among a god or fate, and all in all to do among us, and is solely dependant over the ruling such we make.Neither god, nor an understanding of everything on all, are necessary for the act of living. For some it just makes perch better.
Paragraph 3"Things are what they are, not what we make them.""Our survival, also persevering life of luxury because years on come also even to the leading role beyond, enjoy 0 on go for it among a demigod or fate, and everything to do with us, and is solely Dependant over the ruling that we make."Is this a contradiction or did I just make it become that? It partial jumped out on me and I've recite it customary the paragraph and it shush partial bounce out to me as a contradiction...
Wow, kudos for picking up over that.The first qoute is refering to the state connected with being. For example, the Earth rotates about the sun. Even on the occasion that everyone thinks otherwise, it makes no difference, the Earth will rotate around the sun. I move refering to the idea such we give saying meaning, and then it's taken over faith they mean what we say. My arguement is that words or not, faith or not, things move what they are.The second quote though, move not refering to a state of body at all. I do believe we have total restriction of what we do, (the example given is survive, regularize move out to space) but we do not have control over what things are. So although our idea of what things like nonpolar (somehow the indicated arguement got to that) are changes, physics itself go for it not change. Sometimes we understand it, ever and again we're grievance almost it, passing over it stays the same blind of what we're thinking. We on the extra hand, are precise capable connected with changing.
The French Huguenots, the first Protestants customary Catholic France, sheltered millenary
connected with Jewish juvenile from the Nazis customary the minuscular village of Le Chambon-sur-lignon. So creed was a humanitarian force here.
As it has been scarcely any occasion on all accounts history.Church's regularly feed the homeless, help single mothers over stringent times, take customary orphans,all kinds connected with vile stuff, and that's great.I thought I represent it crystal such religion does do good in some cases, and that I was saying that overall I believe it go for it more help than good.That's contestable of course, and there really is not at all hook of survey it.I would defer this though, on the occasion that a "religion" feeds a starving person, is it the religion, in reverse move it the tribe within? Of course religion itself is an inanimate thing. So what is the reason the people within a creed do good things?1. they're partial good people, in that case wouldn't they be good people still externally religion? and because the starving person would have been fed by that vile individuality with or without religion.2. they're not inseparably good people, but are composed connected with hell in reverse what have you, or move looking to grievance brownie points with god. Okay, that's fine, the starving boy is still inspire food right? So in this case, it was religion such move good, also not necessarily the person. So after what precedent bottle all know what's what? They can't, that is motive it is my opinion.I have forget however, believe fervently, and move and than willing to defend, such people are people, they bring to light a religion if they find one based on who they already are. If they change, it's not considering of a religion, but existent within them such was ready on change, also religion is conveniently their to take the credit, also they move all too happy to thanks religion.If a individuality go for it something, I believe they were cave to do it one way or another, based on what is within them, and their experiences. They then set some meaning behind schedule what was done, and often this has become religion. ie, on the occasion that there were no such thing as religion, we would simply make precise up,if there move not at all such thing as god, we would quietly represent him up.It's convenient.The crusades would have transpire without creed likely, but under another guise. As with 911. As with the starving sir being fed.Where I find trespass though, is when a religion acts as an comfy out because those who go for it not want on think on their own.Why think, albeit official can tell you what on do?
That move flawed logic.Why do tribe keep trying to separate God and Science!? Give me one connected with Einsteins impression that goes opposed to the belief of God.
Well I can't give you one Einstein's, but I bottle give you precise of Darwin's...(against a literal interpretation of the Bible anyway.)
Maybe the bible, passing over not the belief in God...really, there move no evidence on integer against the theory connected with God, by reason of God is a very vague term that goes beyond any simple understanding.not saying i believe in God, but philosophically wise, there's more to it.
no thanks......
We have unusual opposition to flowering so, as per usual, I will feed it about me personally to pull these ridiculous critiques of evolution and "old compost theory" apart. I don't expect many, including JakeJ, on actually read this. God forbid he accidently learnt existent rather than recite the same versed creationist nonsense.Let's begin with the very opening sentence."Darwin was never trained customary the fields connected with science, he was in fact trained on be a pastor."This isn't just marginally wrong; this is unambiguously nowhere gone the mark. Darwin formerly trained as an apprentice doctor, helping his origin think the poor of Shropshire, before going with Erasmus to the University of Edinburgh. He neglected his healing studies to drink in taxidermy. In Darwin’s second year he joined the Plinian Society, a skill natural history group whose bandy strayed within radical materialism. He assisted Robert Edmund Grant’s investigations of the anatomy and life cycle of marine invertebrates in the Firth of Forth, and in March 1827 exhibit on the Plinian his own discovery that black spores forfeit customary oyster hull move the eggs of a skate leech. He learnt classification of plants, also assisted among work over the gathering of the University Museum, one connected with the largest museums in Europe on the time. Darwin was forced by his origin on do an arts status as the first steps towards beautiful a pastor. Darwin break ground there in January 1828, passing over preferred riding and shooting to studying. His cousin Fox introduced him to the popular craze because beetle collecting that he pursued zealously, getting some of his bring to light published in Stevens' Illustrations of British entomology. He be remodeled a close friend also follower connected with botany professor John Stevens Henslow and met other show naturalists who saw scientific work as punctilious customary theology, beautiful known to these dons as “the man who walks with Henslow”.Darwin enjoy on stay at Cambridge until June. He hit the books Paley's Natural Theology that represent an brannigan for beautiful design in nature, explaining adaptation as God acting through laws of nature. He read John Herschel's new scroll which recite the highest aim of customary philosophy as impression such laws through inductive reasoning locate over observation, also Alexander von Humboldt’s Personal Narrative of precise travels. Darwin planned to visit Tenerife with some classmates after graduation on hit the books natural history in the tropics. In preparation, he joined Adam Sedgwick's geology course then went with him customary the summer mapping strata in Wales.He move as close to body coach customary natural sciences equally one possibly could be."When he was over a ship out he was reading a book that talked almost geological gradualism wich states that geological formations took millions of years to form. This book refered greatly to the Sanacrouse River valey, wich was a limited river in a cyclopean valey, it made impression to Darwin that it wuold have feed a long all for that minuscular river on carve that huge valey. Though in theory it sounded vile it enjoy been poven by discipline such it couldn't have trim it out."The book customary question move "Principles of Geology" via Charles Lyell. In it, Lyell set out that geological rest from the secluded over and done can, and should, be render via reference on geological processes now in exercising also thus right observable. Lyell's knowing of geologic barter as the brickwall accumulation of minute barter over enormously long spans of all enjoy a huge influence on Darwin during his journey on the Beagle. The point made about the Sanacrouse River Valley is uncited, irrelevent also misleading. Valleys are, almost definitely, trim exhausted over all via erosion coming out of creek and other customary sources. This is basic geography."He thought that they move evolving but really they were varying and adapting."I be sweet on how they used bifid extra words to describe the punctilious same thing. Evolution is simply deviation over time, among natural choosing being akin on adaptation. This is a stupid argument that isn't at all backed up. They were most definitely evolving."If the Earth were millions connected with years old many things would be different:"Go on then, humour me..."The salt content customary the oceans would move so excessive we could almost perambulation over them."This move one connected with those brannigan locate on ignorance. This argument says that locate on salt input and output from the oceans, they could not be eldest than 62 load years. The major problems with this argument is that, firstly, the people who first mentioned this over off many well celebrated and start ball rolling fashion of sodium removal from water. This artificially inflated the numbers, making it appear that there should move very much more salt then there is. It and assumes that brine accumulation in the past was the same such it move today, regardless connected with the scientific basis over this body that manmade pollution contributes a lot of added sodium to the ocean. You can't use todays level connected with sodium increase also then simply go back 62 load youth control the same rate; that's not after what precedent it works."The silt on the ocean floor would be much higher than it is."Not only enjoy the writer inspire the original brannigan wrong, but the argument that it is supposed to move represent is also wrong. The brannigan goes that the sediments such move eroded away from the Grand Canyon should be somewhere downriver from the Canyon, also such the sediments that have washed downstream are not nearly enough on account for the vast all such were eroded out of from the Canyon. In reality, the Colorado River delta incorporate over 10,000 cubic miles connected with sediment. Much connected with the push and pull layers move limestone and dolomite. These would dissolve over time, and leave no evidence. Because connected with this, multiplying of the amount of sediment eroded also deposited move inflated by as much as 200 percent. The calculations move and based over erosion duty during the youth 1926-1950. The young earth ghost assume the erosion has move happening on the indicated rate because 70 load years. Early customary the yesterday of the river, erosion would enjoy move much less. The Grand Canyon itself activate to erode only five million years ago. Sediment duty are on their highest now, and the indicated cannot be control on calculate rates in the past. Also, and most importantly I feel, for the first 65 load years, the Colorado River did not drain within its show neighborhood of the Gulf of California. Thus, the sediments because 65 million years of the young earth creationist calculations, based on 70 load years, move customary a different location."The moon woudl move because far away from the compost we would enjoy no tides because the mope moves an inch away from the compost every year."Ahh, one connected with my favourites. The argument is quite simple. Young earth ingenious discipline theorists pick up that since the moon move receding (moving away from earth at a duty of about 4 cm/year, before long in the over and done the moon must enjoy been too cozy with to earth, and would enjoy move closer than the Roche Limit (11,000 miles), a point at which the tides caused via the mope would have repair the earth.This argument is so whimsical considering the numbers used are mindboggling. Let us assume, for the sake connected with argument, such the Moon is receding at 6 one thirtysixth of a yard per year. If we go back a load years, then the Moon was 6 million inches closer on the earth. That comes to almost 95 miles via load years. Since the Moon move about 240,000 miles away, such doesn't amount on anything! Indeed, the Moon enjoy a slightly elliptical purview that divaricate more than 95 miles integer via itself. A more accurate estimate, locate on the present rate connected with lunar recession, puts the Moon inward the Roche brim around 1 or 2 billion years ago. This is too easy."The moon would enjoy much more cinders over it than it does now"I can't gather the indicated argument STILL gets used regardless of after what precedent manifold occasion it is shown to be utter nonsense. It enjoy coasted along on obsolete evidence, and fly speck but obsolete evidence, for the last 25 years. More than all other argument, it impression after what precedent creationists usurp from each extra and forever go for it all outside reading. The rationality for this brannigan is quietly a miscaculation by a "scientist" who was essay to show that there would be far more dust on the moon then there was. Instead of, equally everyone else did, realising such his calculation move wrong, he dodge to accept that also simply stated such the moon couldn't be equally versed as it is. Here, because your spy pleasure, are the real figures:"Since the late 1960s, much better and and direct weight of the meteoritic influx to the Earth have been available from satellite penetration data. In a comprehensive review article, Dohnanyi [1972, Icarus 17: 148] showed that the assemblage of meteoritic key impinging on the Earth is exclusive almost 22,000 tons via year [60 tons/day]... Other past estimates connected with the mass of interplanetary matter make contact with the Earth from space, locate on satelliteborne detectors, selection coming out of about 11,000 to 18,000 tons per year (67) [3049 tons/day]; estimates based over the cosmicdust load of deepsea sediment are unworthy (e.g., 11, 103)."Simply put, this means that cipher for the moon (2 x 10-9 grams/square centimeter per year) yields 2.3 tons/day. In 4.5 billion years a layer connected with about precise and a half inches of cosmic dust would incorporate on the moon. (On the moon, of course, a ton would weigh breadth less. We're in fact talking almost a assemblage that would register 2.3 tons on Earth.)"All commets would move burnt up"The argument states such comets last 10,000-15,000 years before body heave apart by stellar wind, that is already then precise nonsense. Any juvenile with a keen move in astronomy will authorize you that it move the heat connected with the sun which move a comet's undoing. Each all a comet, that is akin to a dirty snowball, passes near the sun it loses tons connected with material on vaporization. Thus, the plenty of orbits such a comet can make before being reduced on a crowd of asteroids move limited. The solar slither additionally with the heat also light connected with the unrevealed solar structure move firm for a comet's magnificent tail. Thus, comets brighten relevant equally they near the sun, their tails signify out of from the sun. A few comets occasionally crash into precise of the planets, especially Jupiter, or into the sun itself. Others are thrown out of the solar system forever. The projected nizzertit bridge of one short-period comet, that of Halley's comet, is 40,000 years. The exclusive hook short-period comets bottle move represent to support a developing solar system, hence a developing earth, is by emerge that they have not at all reasonable origin of replenishment. Because short-period comets orbit the sun at least already every 200 years (by definition), and as they lose material on each pass, they duty move constantly replaced over billions of years. Let's briefly summarize what discipline experience almost comets. In 1950, based on a study connected with the orbits of scarcely any long-period comets, the Dutch astronomer Jan Oort proposed such a great spherical shell of them existed on the remote frontiers connected with our stellar system. Better statistics customary more past years have supported the perseverance connected with the Oort Cloud and rivet it at a distance of 50,000 AU (1.3 lightyears). This inner cloud of comets move bellow the Hills Cloud. Originally, it was thought that short-period comets move merely long-period comets from the Oort Cloud that had been indoctrinated by close evade with Jupiter or the other large outer planets. That may origin move precise for some of them, but modern studies of short-period comets enjoy identified their probable nativity customary a region connected with breadth now named the Kuiper Belt, which resembles a flattened ring just beyond the purview of Neptune. Computer simulations show that such a origin would account beautifully because the lowinclination, short-period, prograde orbits, and extra features associated with short-period comets. The Kuiper Belt probably has around 100 million to several billion comets, which presumptively formed at that location when the planets formed, also the gradual pluck of the giant gas heavenly body over time sends a few connected with them regularly towards the sun. Thus, the short-period comets are replenished. Now we go on on the common misinterpretation of the second amerceable of thermodynamics, as origin equally a misunderstanding of the terms amerceable also theory."Also the exponent amerceable connected with Thermodinamics says that everything is decaying and manifold thing move becoming simple. Evolution move a impression and says such things are getting better and unelaborate things are becoming complex. If a impression defies a law the amerceable stays and the theory goes."I've already showed after what precedent this is wrong customary a untimely post, passing over I'll go over it again. Firstly, I'll repost what I make known in regards to misusing the second amerceable connected with themodynamics albeit talking almost the Big Bang:"The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy connected with an isolated system which is not customary equilibrium will control to increase over time, depart a maximum value at equilibrium. Order (the spy complexity of the universe you make known of) is most credible to occur customary a closed system that is far from equilibrium. When a closed structure is customary the equilibrium state, its entropy has reached a maximum value. The entropy of the chain system cannot increase further. Hence, there is no room to compensate because the entropy decrease connected with a local structure within the chain system lest it is accompanied via an entropy increase customary a neighboring local system. By contrast, if a closed structure is very much coming out of equilibrium, its entropy temperament increase dramatically, that can compensate because a substantial entropy decrease of a limited system. Thus, ordered construction are and likely to be created coming out of a non-equilibrium state than an equilibrium state. The Big Bang theory backs relevant this impression connected with the world. The Big Bang creates an initial universe that contains an enormously high pluck body also move unusually far from equilibrium. In order on reach an equilibrium state, the universe expatiate rapidly, emerge in dramatic development customary entropy. This invalidate perfectly because the entropy decrease due on the formation of ordered structures comparable as galaxies, stars, planets, nizzertit on Earth, etc."Now, let's talk ones leg off about the law and evolution.This shows more a misconception almost thermodynamics than almost evolution. The exponent amerceable of thermodynamics says, "No fashion move possible in that the sole emerge is the transfer connected with energy coming out of a cooler on a hotter body." [Atkins, 1984, The Second Law, pg. 25] The confusion emerge when the 2nd law is phrased customary another equivalent way, equally used in my argument exceeding almost the Big Bang: "The entropy of a chain structure cannot decrease." Entropy is an indication of unusable energy and regularly corresponds to visceral notions connected with disorder or randomness. Creationists thus misinterpret the 2nd law on say such things regularly progress from neaten on disorder.However, they neglect the fact such life move not a closed system. The sun provides and than enough energy to drive things. If a mature tomato plant can enjoy more usable energy than the seed it raise from, why should all expect that the next generation of tomatoes can't have more usable energy still? Creationists sometimes try to get around this via claiming such the orientation fail by living affair lets them spawn order. However, not exclusive is life irrelevant to the 2nd law, but order from disorder is common in nonliving systems, too. Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning move partial a few stereotype of order coming from disorder customary nature; not a bit require an intelligent program to achieve that order. In all nontrivial system among patch of pluck flowing via it, you are almost certain on find neaten arising here and there in the system. If order from disorder move supposed to violate the 2nd amerceable of thermodynamics, why is it ubiquitous customary nature?The thermodynamics argument opposed to flowering displays a misconception almost evolution as well as about thermodynamics, since a clear impression of how evolution all should reveal major flaws customary the argument. Evolution make known that organisms reproduce with only small changes at intervals generations (after their control kind, because to speak). For example, animals might have appendages that move longer in reverse shorter, thicker or flatter, lighter or darker than their parents. Occasionally, a barter might be over the order of having four or senary fingers instead of five. Once the differences appear, the theory connected with evolution calls for differential reproductive success. For example, maybe the animals with longer appendages survive on have more spawn than short-appendaged ones. All of these fashion bottle move forget today. They certainly don't violate all physical laws. We also have a misunderstanding about "information" contained in DNA in regards to more orientation being added. Information theory go for it sort of enjoy a principle of degradation, but it move only relevant in certain situations (which evolution isn't precise of). It implies, essentially, that orientation barter is irreversible: orientation gets more and more different coming out of how it started out, and the more it gets changed, the harder it is to authorize how it activate out. In a communication or orientation storage system, point the goal move to transmit or replay the original message intact, barter move necessarily bad, so the indicated conform to degradation. In flowering however, change is not necessarily bad, so the indicated is not a origin of degradation. No new 'information' move created in the hook that creationists seem on assume. DNA is represent up connected with sugar, phosphate and a mixture of four bases, which are adenine, thymine, guanine and cytosine. Information within the DNA is exhibit by the motley of these four bases. Changing the neaten of these bases within the DNA incodes new information; that is exactly what happens when there is a mutation within the DNA. The order of the bases change, and the information contained within the DNA is unified on the original. Viola."Most dating Evolutionists use is faulty, also when they make known that the Earth is millions connected with youth versed they only use10% of it."I enjoy unambiguously no idea what is being implied here. And the age of the Earth move 4.54 billion years, not millions."Darwin said such on the occasion that science could prove him grievance then he was. If he said such and we can prove him wrong also we can then how can people shush give chase the indicated theory?"Well, there we go. Science has consistently found flowering on be correct, also I've shown integer connected with these arguments on be false. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you don't gather in evolution, it's either because you don't understand it, or have a religious reason for not wanting on avow it. Evolution is absolute fact.
So what your make known is it's just a crazy theory, right? ;)
Why Einstein? If I might ask.
What, cant you bring to light anything? Don't essay on avoid my challenge.
Fine, Jake...which God would you like me on debunk? Let's go among the Christian God. If you feed the bible literally, the universe can only be about 6,000 years old (that's when almost Christian theologians claim God created it). Einstein's impression connected with relativity says that vantage point travels on a constant velocity for all observers. If the Bible is becomingly we would exclusive be able to show stars less than 6,000 vantage point youth out of from us. Is the indicated the case? No, in fact we can show stars billions of miles away. This fashion the bible, interpreted literally, duty be wrong.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJake I haven't laughed that stringent in a long time. That is precise whimsical habitat thanks because posting it....how funny would it be on the occasion that people in fact took those complexion of ridiculous arguments seriously? I limited think about it...over a centennial youth of scientific advancement customary fields such as genetics, geology, embryology, anatomy, also the entire fossil record completely ignored. They regularize incorrectly use the laws of thermodynamics...classic!It's vile there's not really tribe who believe the indicated stuff. I mean imagine after what precedent brainwashed, in reverse just plain stupid someone would have on be...It's incredible!I'm beautiful such you have a sense of humor Jake, because that post made my day.P.S. I don't cerebrate Xaenon got the joke. He thought you move serious! Haha
And what almost my actual post? all you talk ones leg off about was the link.
What's so freaking funny? People do take those arguments seriously. It in reality made your day? Then why did you oppose it? "They even falsely
exercising the origin of thermodynamics...classic!"How so?
(I'll act in response to the couple here)You're right, people do take those brannigan seriously. That's whats so funny. Did you in reality not get the sarcasm? I thought that I was actually making it to boot obvious. I was making joking of you for recite overused also flawed arguments (such as the thermodynamics one). If you want to know specifically why the argument is dumb take in the sights at xeanon's posts.As for the rest of your post, the church I go to doesn't usually doesn't talk almost genesis (or I just don't pay back attention). If you pauperism to go with that interpretation, before long I guess Einstein's impression connected with relativity wouldn't disprove your God. Not that it really matters. You could have make known "God put the vantage point on look like there were stars" and it would be the same thing.Going abet on evolution, I prospect such you move not one of the simple minded tribe who allow religious impression to interfere how they impression science. In fact, stacks of Christians are there on come on terms with their sureness and evolution (including the past three popes!). I may enjoy fun represent joking of punctilious beliefs, passing over customary all honesty moderate religion is harmless, and sometimes can regularize lead on some good, but denying facts is silly.Below is a link to a youtube sketch of a biology student who both gather in flowering and is a Christian. He represent a lot connected with videos debunking creationists. If you have questions, his videos are pretty informative.
Of course i got the sarcasm thats motive it pissed me off considering i experience that you didn't think it was funny. "If you pauperism to experience specifically motive the argument is dumb look at xeanon's posts." - i did, at least he can post for himself, i asked you about the thermodynamics part. I don't negligence what church you "go to" and i also don't negligence that you are to arrogant on even pay attention.No, I'm not unelaborate endowed with reason I partly believe in evolution, partial not Darwin's take over it. And I wouldn't experience much almost the antipodal three popes considering I'm a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. But I'm uncompromising that you will just try on tair my religion apart. "I may enjoy fun represent fun connected with religious beliefs, but in all honesty moderate religion is harmless, and ever and again can regularize lead on some good, passing over revoke facts is silly."Why go for it you make fun of peoples religious belief's, in reverse ANY impression because such matter. This is America, motive do you regularize care about extra tribe beliefs. It's one thing to argue against official passing over to make fun of their personal beliefs is pretty messed up, and that move NOT what the indicated web site move for in reverse about. I think you are getting the grievance idea.I would sooner move wrong or have trouble getting my point across than to be as prejudice as you are and take off tribe beliefs. I think you be bound me and other Christians over this habitat an apology.
You believe in evolution, just not Darwin's take on it? Then authorize me, what DO you gather about evolution, then?Also, on the occasion that you read Xeanon's post, why do you need the other guy to render the thermodynamics part?
I didn't talk about thermodynamics because I didn't feel be sweet on wasting my time on something such enjoy already move addressed. But on the occasion that you insist:The article talks almost the earth as if it move a chain system, when in fact it is only a small sector of a much greater system. If you look at the stellar system you can see that the sun is in fact beautiful and disordered also move go for it work over earth. Therefore there move no contravention of the law of thermodynamics.Now such we cleared that up, I'm not going to "tair" anyone's creed apart. I decided on refute your god because you challenged official to. Don't forget that, considering it's important. If someone keeps their beliefs personal, then fine, passing over you asked if all could attest your beliefs wrong with science, and therefore I obliged. If you were cave to get your panties in a twist almost it, then motive ask? (Oh also on the occasion that you want to hear your religion being represent joking of, I'm pretty sure there's a south park episode such makes joking connected with mormans).As for your final comments, I have regularly respected people's exclusive beliefs except:1) When people use creed as justification to discriminate against others2) When people deny point also convince others on revoke facts via creed (this would move where you fall)3) When people use religion equally an appease on prohibit others (a.k.a. punctilious extremists like the terrorists in the Middle East)This was my point almost moderate religion. People who are religious, but do not fall into one of the particular
categories move fine by me. If it represent you impression better, I am opposed to all atheist who falls within these categories. So no I don't owe anyone an apology, considering in America we have restriction of speech.Also, technically the indicated move the internet, not America.
Well, criticism because not going after my religion, and yeah I have heard alot about that dang episode of southpark, passing over I have never watched that show, however if your cave by what that show says, I hear they also said such the mormon chirch is true. (;Okay, I temperament admit that I dont know integer that much almost evolution, even though I brought it up. I just get defensive. I will do more reseach consequent time. I hope we bottle inspirit past this and find and stuff to conform on.But-What facts did I deny?, because im pritty sure evolution is a theory.
Actually the episode goes via the apologue connected with the foundation connected with the Church connected with the Latter Day narrate (or some sketch connected with it), while someone customary the background sings "dumb du dumb dumb dumb." But south square represent fun connected with everyone, that's why it's because great!I guess technically, you didn't revoke any point passing over let me help you understand. There is an credible amount of scientific exhibit pointing toward evolution...so much that they bottle actually tell point every animal on earth develop from and how they are related. Evolutionary versed in is guts in healing research, which is precise of the reasons I inspire kinda ticked albeit people say that evolution might not be true. If it wasn't for our understanding of evolution, people would literally die.Let me put it in perspective: let's say you walk into a room and you see a dead body. Standing above the body is a man with a knife. You look on the body also you see that there are knife marks. There is nobody other in the house, or regularize gone the house. Technically, you didn't see the revoke so you can exclusive system a theory. If your theory move anything other than "the dead guy move killed by the boy with the knife" then you might wish your head checked. This is what evolution is like. There move because much exhibit and almost not at all real scientist who enjoy looked at the evidence develop to all conclusion extra than "the aquatic currently on earth evolved from more primitive body over load of years."Hope such clears things up!
Thanks for helping me understand, im not fully against the idea connected with flowering just sector connected with it, evolution is fundamental to medical factfinding but move Darwinian evolution? I still enjoy allot to learn. But thanks.
People divorce them because you enjoy to divorce them for them to be there to function. Science claim evidence, creed doesn't. Religion fills the gaps in our versed in among a god, while science fills the gaps in our versed in among facts also impression that are supported by evidence
I, on the help of All those renown who dart with "I", I temperament make known that both science also Religion bottle incorporate together. Also, There already move a popular saying,(Now it's not that as popular as before) that "It's better on believe in God than to sooner not. IF you believe in God, and there truly is a God, you temperament go to heaven.IF you do not believe customary God, and there staunchly is a God, you could move punished.IF you gather in God, also there move no God, nothing temperament happen.IF you go for it not believe in God, also there is no God, fly speck will happen. So, to move over the safe side, I will truly believe in God. My faith will be supported in a mutual defense among both God, and science...
God will be angry
That's, connected with course, assuming that God exists.
I forever rely singularly over God. One must pray as if everything move on God's shoulders, but represent as on the occasion that everything is on his shoulders. That's how I perch my life. However, I would much sooner put my faith on God. It parcel out a chance for miracles. Science is straightforward, but not regularly correct. Sure, you could plug into formulas, but there move regularly variants. With God, I feel safe.
Sometimes you wish to specially affair phenomenal things yourself.You cannot prove why did bipedal die in reverse point do we essay postern death.Things regarding these affair can only move realized and not proved or should i say it cannot be proved.
Science move slow. What you recite are the final two playing cards that religion/God shush has in his hand. When science bring to light the answer, religion will die. Or on the occasion that aliens come to earth. For none religion claims us on be the only damned affair in the whole fricken universe. That mute a little greedy, sounds like a human claim. Therefore God is nothing and than a bipedal ingenious to help hide our suspect of death. End game. I rest my case with science.
Id radther rivet my faith customary God, considering i experience that eventhough i may go via alot in life, someday ill stand in front connected with him, Actually we all will, but i dont wanna waste my nizzertit just making God second option, i wanna live for him and actually give chase him and lead others to him, faith without action is dead, so yeah i chose God
Can faith customary science earn you a happy afterlife like faith in God can?
I have show what man does among science, I temperament not put my sureness in man. To have faith customary one superior to sir move not flawed, but flawless.
God is known on move miraculous passing over manifold disagree to say its not possible.... Aparantely they don't experience the represent connected with a miracle.
I can gather in science externally faith. I "see" the evidence.Faith move another kind of evidence such is mostly with sight, although the effects bottle be most astonishing. Tell me this...Under the assumption God made the world, would it move wiser to chain in the producer or the created?Under the assumption there is not at all god, would it really affair since your nizzertit is cave on end completely at any time?
God will always be there, science not so much!
So science is going to essay away? I think discipline temperament be here for a while.
And I quote .........' discipline temperament move on hand for a while'......... Science will be here for equally long equally God pauperism it! God on the otherhand will be here because ever and ever also regularly and ever and ever and regularly and....................................................
That requires God's existence first. Once you prove His existence, then you have a good point, passing over until then, you don't.
I do have say you go for it have a point, but..... What more move there on prove. We have a beautiful planet to perch on, which we move killing. Be thankful you are here also alive, move indebted because life. I suspect your veiws, I grew up not in reality knowing who God was, I even still question him today. But one day I put him to the test, and it worked I was and cause wonder than any thing. I enjoy no exhibit or spy to this essay I made, passing over it will be embreeded customary my heart because ever. So whether discipline neglect or not, God will regularly be among us. No matter what.
So you're taking "evidence" that develop from a subjective mind rather of from objective science? No thanks.Keep customary endowed with reason such tribe pick up on have seen/felt/whatever the presence connected with EVERY demigod in any religion
I suspect what your saying, ounce then I raise relevant not caring who god was. I teased others that gather in him now I impression bad. I really just pauperism on say F U and inspirit on among my life, passing over I won't. Because I don't pauperism to make all spy on this site. Let's partial take our exclusive opinions and let this conversation alone for now! Friends?
No. Science has always been here. We as humans just did not regularly understand it. Your logic is lacking. Without humans, there would be no God. We are the exclusive creature that seems on care about it. And its not God that we care about, it is death. Humans have a deepseated fear of death that influenced the ingenious connected with god. End game.
Science has regularly been here? What move such supposed to mean? Science is a strict methodological practice such has developed over time. It did not exist sooner we created it. It seems that it move your logic such is lacking. I'll assume that you move confusing discipline with "empirically verifiable objective truth", that arguably enjoy always move here.As very much as fear of being being the only impetus because the invention of God, do you have any psychological evidence to support the indicated assertion?
Recently, our government has been borrowing a bulky all of financial from foreign funds to finance states expenditures. Such move results customary high budget deficit, inflation and even corruption, which hinders its real effects on the economy.
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